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 [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs

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MessageSujet: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Sam 27 Avr 2013 - 14:28

( <3 hex, merci pour la traduction )

Quand j'ai vu les vidéos de fel2fram sur les i-o charges, j'ai pensé "comment pourrais-je noter ça avec la syntaxe des fingercross ? [fc "slots"]

Après y avoir rélféchi queques jours, j'arrive avec une solution assez simple (sans utiliser les modifiers de doigts "back/palm". Au début j'ai pensé ça, mais ça n'est pas clair [fc Tp1b]).

Bon, allons y :

Spoiler:
 


Dernière édition par RPD le Sam 27 Avr 2013 - 16:20, édité 3 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Sam 27 Avr 2013 - 14:32

first !§§!!

EDIT : fc 1 < 2 Oo

EDIT : What would you do for bTb1 ?

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Sam 27 Avr 2013 - 15:08

feld'oeuf a écrit:
What would you do for bTb1 ?
hmm, i thought about it, but its not really used, so i didnt broke my head in it xD

it could be something like [fc T><1]
>.<

a more drunk version could be [fc Tx=Ty; 1x=1z; Ty=1x ]
The = modifier is in my pre release txt, but i didnt included it here because its not really usefull. But meh, why not.

Code:

"slot"="slot" means that both slots are touching, not crossed, or at least trying to touch (tx and ty ist almost impossible to touch)
For example, spiderspin
PU spin [fc 2=P; 3=P] [p] [s 23*] [c]

I dont like it because its not really a crossing. just that they touch. So... potatoe.

In this case, i think that the best option is to say [fc bTb1] or [fc Tb1b] or [fc Tb=1b]

feld'oeuf a écrit:
[16:55:12] fel2fram: in fact I don't understand your notation
[16:55:31] fel2fram: your T<1 has nothing to do with 1<2 for me è.é
Images added


Dernière édition par RPD le Dim 28 Avr 2013 - 12:27, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Dim 28 Avr 2013 - 11:27

Pas mal, pas mal, mais y'a le problème soulevé par fel oui. Et j'ai imaginé 1>2, ça m'a fait rire
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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Sam 11 Mai 2013 - 23:00

Sinon aujourd'hui j'viens de penser que les twirls c'étais juste des fingercross Surprised
ça te révolutionne une vie ça
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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Sam 11 Mai 2013 - 23:12

I was talking with fel about this notation concept, and we both agreed that the fingercross concept is really unclear. For example, the spiderspin basic notation i proposed
PU spin [fc 23=P] [p] [s 23*] [c]
With this we consider that 23P is a fingercrossing, when i think nobody thought spiderspin as a fc... never.
Almost anything that is not sonic pass and ta is a "fingercrossing". Strange

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Sam 11 Mai 2013 - 23:39

Uh, that's not a fingercross, just [23=P], not [fc 23=P]! Also, this can maybe be usefull to use back notation for all the slot : b2.3, 23, 2.b3
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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mar 14 Mai 2013 - 18:19

I'm starting to understand your notation a little more. But I agree with seithness. It would be better to remove the term "fingercrossing" (it's not a real fingercrossing since it only depends on the mod, doesn't it ?)

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mar 14 Mai 2013 - 18:40

Yes, [finger position] can be used for discribe a special position of the finger like [2>1], but that's not discribe a fingercrossing. like 13.2[3=1>2]
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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mar 14 Mai 2013 - 20:33

after some talk with seith, we concluded that this is the answer for life , universe and everything. When google said that it was 42, he really meant [4>2]

Now, seriously. fc prefix before this is not necesary, as its not a real crossing, just some virtual crossing (special positions) and, that this can notate lots of tricks in a more concrete way (as the spiderspin and IO tricks i said before, twirls and a lot of more)

Citation :
(it's not a real fingercrossing since it only depends on the mod, doesn't it ?)
No. You got your niggas wrong, but glad that you started geting it :3
For example (just look at the position of the fingers) try to guess how to do this stalls:
stall 1.2[1<2]
stall 12.*[1<2]
BS stall 12.*[1<2]
nothing to do with the mod.

I tried to think any fc/position/whatever that cant be notated with one hand, and I think that we are totally done with one hand slots. With PS/PU/PD/BS modifiers, dot and asterisk notation, x,y,z,xy,yz phalanx modifiers + t for fingertips, w for metacarpians as a subdivision of palm/back and wx for knuckles, back and palm modifiers and names for all fingers (T, tf, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 more possible names for polidactily[5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0]), we got it complex enough. Any position that can be ambiguous/can be notated? not any by my side.

And, to finish this, and to start the topic of 2 handed fingercrossings. I think that any combination of fingers of both hands (one of dominant hand and one of nondominant [ ' ] hand) can be considered a real fingercrossing, only a new position. For example:
[fc 1y1y']
its strange to call this a crossing, as its easy as a pie. Nothing to do with [fc 12] nor [1>2]. Basically because it needs zero skill to execute it. Any idea? My idea is
[1y=1y']
but its too ambiguous. More than 6 positions can be notated that way. And
[1y=1y'; 1x!=1x'; 1z!=1z']
is way too complex (!= means the exact oposite of =) for a thing like that.

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mar 14 Mai 2013 - 21:56

@RPD a écrit:
stall 1.2[1<2]
stall 12.*[1<2]
BS stall 12.*[1<2]
nothing to do with the mod.
So basically it only means "1 is folded" ?

Citation :
When google said that it was 42, he really meant [4>2]
Stop it, I don't want to get fat è.é (signature-speaking)

Citation :
tried to think any fc/position/whatever that cant be notated with one hand, and I think that we are totally done with one hand slots.
\o/

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mar 14 Mai 2013 - 22:06

>feld'oeuf< a écrit:
@RPD a écrit:
stall 1.2[1<2]
stall 12.*[1<2]
BS stall 12.*[1<2]
nothing to do with the mod.
So basically it only means "1 is folded" ?
basically it means that 1 is under 2, AKA 2 is over 1. To get that position, 1 can be folded, unfolded, whatever. The same as your I/O modifiers. IO tipped sonic in T1 means that the mod starts in the palm of 1 and it ends in the back of 1. For geting that in/out motion/position, 1 can be folded/unfolded/cut/etc. :3
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-V5A5ofmGJPk/UXwbNKS5SXI/AAAAAAAAB3g/sgoBoMnuA6A/w800-h448-no/test.png

>feld'oeuf< a écrit:
Citation :
tried to think any fc/position/whatever that cant be notated with one hand, and I think that we are totally done with one hand slots.
\o/
(╯°□°)╮(╮°□°)╯~(-.-~) (~-.-)~ ~(-.-~) ~(-.-)~ (╯°□°)╮(╮°□°)╯

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mer 15 Mai 2013 - 0:15

@RPD a écrit:
>feld'oeuf< a écrit:
@RPD a écrit:
stall 1.2[1<2]
stall 12.*[1<2]
BS stall 12.*[1<2]
nothing to do with the mod.
So basically it only means "1 is folded" ?
basically it means that 1 is under 2
1 is under 2, but there are stall 12.* : I don't understand.
12.* means that 1 and 2 are on the same side of the mod. So 1 and 2 are touching the mod, are on the same side of the mod AND 1 is under 2 ? The mod is touching 1 and 2 on the side of the fingers ?

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I don't know if his smoothness and difficulty is 0 or max score
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what is he doing
he's like "HELLO I CAME FROM THE FUTURE TO DO NOTHING"
"music sheet for a futuristical instrument"

Spoiler:
 


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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mer 15 Mai 2013 - 9:27

I see stall 12.*[1<2] with [1<2] and a the mod stall on the 2 fingers (easy to do)
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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mer 15 Mai 2013 - 10:39

Oh. It also came to my mind this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zQKYNpFeQI 0:06
TA T.1-T1.*[Tt=1t] ~ Fl IA T1.*[Tt=1t]-T1.*[Tt=1t]
No fel? :3

Now more examples, and ways of notating it, from simple to complex.

12.*[1<2]
12.*[1p<2p]


Now, the slot fel proposed, tb1b, and the conclussions hex and me got yesterday
T.1[Tb=1b]
T.1[Txp=Typ; 1xp=1zp]
T.1[Txp=Typ; 1xp=1zp; Tyb=1zb] (The Tyb=1zb] part is not necessary)
Tyb.1zb[Txp=Typ; 1xp=1zp] (The Tyb.1zb part is not necessary. If you do [Txp=Typ; 1xp=1zp] and try to hold the mod in T.1, you'll see that without doing any crossing, there's only 1 physically possible position. So no more modifiers needed)


21.4[1<2]

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mer 15 Mai 2013 - 18:09

@RPD a écrit:
Oh. It also came to my mind this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zQKYNpFeQI 0:06
TA T.1-T1.*[Tt=1t] ~ Fl IA T1.*[Tt=1t]-T1.*[Tt=1t]
No fel? :3
That's right, if t means tip =)

Let me suggest you something. Why not separate the two notations :
- [4 > 2] whose goal is only to show which fingers are over and which are below, even though they're not necessarily facing each other. The mod needs to be held between the two fingers, otherwise it doesn't make sense.
- [fc 4 > 2] which means that the fingers are necessarily in a "painful" position (like what you do)

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Mer 15 Mai 2013 - 20:02

fel2table a écrit:
That's right, if t means tip =)
Yes. I thought that the x y z notation wasnt complete, so i "added" 3 more modifiers. t for tip, w for metacarpians and wx for knuckles :3

fel2table a écrit:
Let me suggest you something. Why not separate the two notations :
- [4 > 2] whose goal is only to show which fingers are over and which are below, even though they're not necessarily facing each other. The mod needs to be held between the two fingers, otherwise it doesn't make sense.
- [fc 4 > 2] which means that the fingers are necessarily in a "painful" position (like what you do)
It quite makes sense, and it can be obvious, but also subjective. Lets say that we use fc modifier to say that a position is painful/needs some flexibility to be done. [fc T1] is, with actual notation, a fingercrossing, but the flexibility needed is zero. same for [fc 11']

My idea for separating fc and position notation is, probably more complicated to get for someone that doesnt know the notation, but more "objective" also.
i was doing an image to explain it but photoshop crashed so nvm. while facing hand palm, a normal fc makes a "cross" shape, while > and < positions make like a single line shape.

I think that, in the end, the best is to put the fc modifier if you think it helps/its needed, because both ways, its subjective. Smile all time, study, and dont do drugs. Peace.

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Jeu 16 Mai 2013 - 18:35

@RPD a écrit:
Lets say that we use fc modifier to say that a position is painful/needs some flexibility to be done. [fc T1] is, with actual notation, a fingercrossing, but the flexibility needed is zero. same for [fc 11']

Forget about "painful". Just when one finger is facing the other.
Because sometimes your notation is necessary although the fingers aren't making a line shape at all.

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Jeu 16 Mai 2013 - 22:11

fel2table a écrit:
Forget about "painful". Just when one finger is facing the other.
Because sometimes your notation is necessary although the fingers aren't making a line shape at all.

I see it x)

But i have 2 "bugs" in 1H notation. So we're not totally done with it D:

1.- I talked about this long time ago with yam, and yesterday with hex. If we consider the finger a parallelepiped, we have 6 sides, 5 usefull for notation (because the other one is the side that connects hand palm with the finger). One is fingertip, notated as "t", other is fingerback "b" and fingerpalm "p". But the other 2 sides aren't defined. We cant call them right "r" and left "l" because the notation woulnt be the same for right handed people and left handed people. hex said that we could name them with two random letters that aren't in use, but this can be confusing and not really intuitive. I have 2 ideas for this:
- Call that 2 letters "i" and "o" for the inner side and outer side. But this can also be confusing.
- Give another meaning to the [ = ] statement in this notation, and call both sides "s". For example, 1s[s = 2] for the side towards 2. But this is also confusing, even more than "i" and "o"

2.- A problem with invisible finger notation " * ", when the mod is held by only one finger, but behind it. In normal conditions, mod would fall to the floor, but inertia keeps it in the place. With 2 or more fingers we dont have that problem. For example (palm down):
Normal -> 12.*
Antigravity -> 21.*
But with one finger, both are 1.* and 1.*. An idea for this is calling the normal one (in palm down) 1b.* and antigravity 1p.*; but i dont know it this would be consistent enough or it will lead into more problems.

Thanks to the people who read this faking long text bricks. Thanks ^^

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Ven 17 Mai 2013 - 16:28

@RPD a écrit:
- Call that 2 letters "i" and "o" for the inner side and outer side. But this can also be confusing.
- Give another meaning to the [ = ] statement in this notation, and call both sides "s". For example, 1s[s = 2] for the side towards 2. But this is also confusing, even more than "i" and "o"
The first option is the best because usable if you want to describe a stall, for example =)

Citation :
An idea for this is calling the normal one (in palm down) 1b.* and antigravity 1p.*; but i dont know it this would be consistent enough or it will lead into more problems.
It works exactly like a simple finger, so there's no problem imo

Our two combined notations still have a little flaw. A slot where the thumb (for example) is opposed to other fingers can be notated two ways : it depends on what fingertip you're looking at when making the circle of fingers. If we use your notation, only one is possible to be done (maybe there are some cases where you can't know, but I haven't found one). It's very perturbing for someone who's not aware of the two possibilities.

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Sam 18 Mai 2013 - 4:41

fel2love<3<3<3 a écrit:
Our two combined notations still have a little flaw. A slot where the thumb (for example) is opposed to other fingers can be notated two ways : it depends on what fingertip you're looking at when making the circle of fingers. If we use your notation, only one is possible to be done (maybe there are some cases where you can't know, but I haven't found one). It's very perturbing for someone who's not aware of the two possibilities.

hmmm, i dont know if i'm getting you right this time. Some image for explaining? D:

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Jeu 23 Mai 2013 - 20:32

For the same slot :


T2.1

2T.1

I guess we could simply follow the rule "always be in front of the smallest finger" (T<1<2<3<4)

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Jeu 23 Mai 2013 - 21:34

hm. why not simplifying the . notation and adding the position mofiers?
I mean. In both slots, the only difference is how fingers are bent. So, first of all, notate them straight. T2.1 in both.
Then, add [] modifiers. [T>1] in the first one and [1T] in second one (1T because it looks like fc 1T but not crossed... what we talked some comments before)

But yes, i suppose that with all this new modifiers, we can have lots of notations for the same slot. But i find no way of stoping it.

Also, I'm working on a breakdown syntax tool, that may be useful for this cases if programmed the right way. The objective is to translate notation to text. Like:
sonic T2-12 => sonic, starting in T2 and ending in 12 while doing a fingercrossing in 2T in order to get the sonic motion

But i dont know how long it will take to me with my programming knowledge lol.

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Ven 24 Mai 2013 - 16:24

you didn't get my point ;_;

@RPD a écrit:
In both slots, the only difference is how fingers are bent.
They are supposed to be the same and seen from two different points of view.

Citation :
So, first of all, notate them straight. T2.1 in both.
Why not 2T.1 ?

Your idea of program is nice, it'd help a lot :3

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Dim 26 Mai 2013 - 17:34

fel2table a écrit:
you didn't get my point ;_;
;_;

fel2table a écrit:
Citation :
So, first of all, notate them straight. T2.1 in both.
Why not 2T.1 ?
Now that I see this a bit better... this notation has a fail
when we use the slot.slot syntax, we suppose that we have 2 sides in the mod surface. But in your last pic you are using 3 sides.
not really. its just that the 2 sides are not clear. by your last pic it can also be notated as T.2p1b

so... i dont know

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs
Dim 26 Mai 2013 - 17:41

@RPD a écrit:
T.2p1b
T and 1 are supposed to be on the same side. But trust me, you can notate it T2.1 or 2T.1 according to which point of view you're adopting.

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MessageSujet: Re: [CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs

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[CONCEPT][IDEES] Extension de la notation fc avec I & O fcs

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